The thematic essay the world never needed but deserved. Learn about Tui T. Sutherland's acclaimed epic dragon fantasy series unlike ever before, through the mysterious Cole S. Sieben himself.
I must say I really like the amount of insight you try to give without being redundant or excessive. This is just the right length for the right kind of introduction that, really, more people should be making. All+ the while you don't sacrifice any of the good bits you make the essay YOURS AND the quality is consistent across the whole thing. Sure it's a bit of a stretch but I really think this is the finest written thing anyone's made to do with Wings Of Fire, and I admire your commitment in putting this history together.
I'd go and tell people on the wiki about it, but you know them. it'll get ignored or torn to shreds, and I will get blamed or something, and people will complain no matter what, but I truly hope more people read this some way or another. It's a shame it's so hard to find, otherwise it could have been a huge hit
Oh and keep writing! I can only imagine what kind of fantasy writer you might be :) :) :)
Thank you - I must say, you're too kind with your praise!
Quality over quantity all the way. I'm more than happy to answer questions, or give less vaguely ominous, more concise answers to questions... apologies if the lack of examples substantially discussed at length was lacking. And I appreciate your bit about the "it could have been a huge hit"... I'd originally planned publishing it with a massive distributor (and wrote to eighteen organizations/educational resource centers, only to be rejected by all of them), and then it would've gotten presumably 10,000-200,000+ readers, but... oh well. Nothing more I can do; it's only spreading by word of mouth, though I have to say I'm impressed by how many hundred people have read it in its first week out!
Don't worry about "letting it loose" on the world of fans if you're worried to, by the way. ^^ IF it does make it's way around (and it hasn't as of this point), I have high hopes and low expectations, as it can often be good to have with those kinds of situations... so long as someone isn't looking to adopt some kind of common consensus on this piece, whether good or bad, I'm grateful that someone even gave it the chance in the first place; I welcome anyone to read it!
And thank you once again - Tui's right in that anyone can be a writer... though it takes a lot of practice, too! ^^
Thank you for your kind words! Genuinely speaking - I'd been a bit afraid I'd receive a more... polarizing reaction, you could say. ^^
I'll admit this was definitely a more experimental kind of stylistic arrangement compared to what I'm generally used to writing; I'm honored that it blew quite a few people away. With regards to the "rare ability", you're a bit more flattering than you probably should be - this was a one-off project, and apart from my eventual book (please don't ask details for the time being, mwahaha~) you won't get to hear from me again... in the foreseeable future, at least.
I believe everyone should have the opportunity to read the series for his or herself without the influence of others, whether that be fan-produced works shaping pre-conceptions or reading the reviews of others. That being said, it was a bit of a challenge in providing such an in-depth introductory analysis that brings people up-to-date without sacrificing the depth itself. A balancing act between spoiler-free neutrality and the unmatched capacity I have to discerningly discuss everything. (Seriously speaking, if I hadn't decided to ultimately limit myself this would've been six times as long. ...Hundreds of drafts and thousands of hours later, I can confirm this is the case.) Just look at Darkstalker, after all - it's rather hard to justify its excellence without knowing it!
Many fans, readers and FanWings who have attended live events with me have gone on to wonder, and yes, at one point I was even thought to be Tui in disguise (as I've answered hundreds of Crowdcast event questions long before - and during - live events, for both the sake of ensuring new questions are answered/asked as well as helping as many people as possible find what they seek). But I happen to live in the far-away land of rural Vancouver, Canada, half a continent away from Tui and perhaps destined to NEVER get the opportunity to meet her. At least there's the hope she might read this one day. But... long story short, I'm just a... notorious fan who knows more than most. Nothing more, nothing less... ...or is there something more to me than meets the eye? Hmm?
I'm a bit blown away by this piece. You cleverly anticipate all the questions a reader has in due time, and carry on with a quirky, good-humored tone consistently. I can't find fault with your facts, having been to a few online events where you were attending in the past :) :) :)
1. What questions have you asked Tui over the years? Not all the ones you've answered lol, just which ones you actually asked Tui that got answered by her, hahaha
2. Who's your favourtie dragon in Wings of fire?
3. Why did you write this piece? I don't want to sound redundant but I don't know if you've already answered this somewhere else
~ My favorite character, possibly of all time, is Darkstalker. For reasons I'll never fully explain to anyone. Ever. Mwa. Ha. Ha. ^^
~ Why I wrote this piece? Well... to enlighten and introduce a serious audience to Wings of Fire while offering something for everyone - to tell a story with all that I know, introducing the books and ideas intimately yet objectively. It's difficult to say if there have been ANY retrospective pieces on the books, and there definitely haven't been any examinations of the themes from a distance even remotely similar to this prior to its publication... so... perhaps that's a good start? On a personal level it's far more complicated - naturally - but to share the love of the series and help present what few people know to a larger audience. Though I wasn't able to secure a re-distributor despite my best efforts - hence the accessibility of this essay is very limited - I'm quite pleased to see how positive of a critical reception it has received.
~ I've answered around seven hundred questions at Wings of Fire events, and have asked five, four of which have been answered as of this point; I'm glad you asked:
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How do you think you would use animus magic?
"Well, it would be pretty exciting to be able to snap my fingers and have my books just be written exactly the way I would write it if I spent months and months writing - you know, be like, 'Here is Book 15! All finished!' That would be pretty amazing. But I will say some of what I wrote in Book 10 was me kind of working through what I might do with animus magic and how it could backfire, so the fact that Qibli's first instinct is 'You know, if I had animus magic I could make everyone like me,'' that's one of my first instincts too - I'd be like, 'What? Then I wouldn't have to worry about people not liking me!' Which I think everybody does. Then Darkstalker kind of does that and Qibli realizes, 'Probably not so great, actually - it's not an awesome spell to cast on everybody.' And then there's also stuff in other parts of the books about using it to protect your children. Everything Clearsight does - it's not with animus magic - but she uses her magic to protect her children and make their lives as happy as possible, and then there are ways that can backfire... so I spent a lot of time going in circles about 'What if I cast this spell, but then it went horribly wrong?' so hopefully, I don't know, maybe getting a spell to write all my books for me would be... uh, I don't know how that would go horribly wrong but I'm sure I could think of something in the next ten minutes! Because I think that there's... I don't know, I like writing about magic, but I also think that it brings up a lot of questions about what could happen, so anyway, that's my answer! ...Oh, you know what, no, wait: I'd stop climate change! Sorry, that's the thing I should have said! I would stop climate change and make the pandemic go away and have everybody go back to school and be happy again." [29:03 to 31:05]
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Religion is very uniquely portrayed in Wings of Fire. Do you reflect faith systems metaphorically/philosophically (ex: Tolkien's LotR), do you write characters based on their set of beliefs, or do you do something different?
"...Yeah, that is a really good question. Umm... I mean it's... I feel like for the real answer, I'd have to go a lot into depth about my religious background and, umm... like, I went to a Baptist Missionary School in Paraguay and I also studied Buddhism in college and I'm married to a wonderful Jewish man and we're raising our children Jewish, so there's a lot of pieces that kind of come together and, um, in my brain as I'm thinking about this, but I think that for me what it really comes down to - especially with a fantasy world like this - is more of a moral grounding, and I do think a lot about the dragons choosing right and wrong and choosing to help other dragons over themselves is a lot of elements of different religious beliefs or philosophies that hopefully come together. I feel like, you know, if you want a really good answer to this you gotta find a grad student who could write a really good essay on all of the different things that I tried to weave into the books - I'm not sure I could explain it quite as well, but it's definitely a big part of what I'm thinking about is just the, um... not necessarily like putting it in the framework of a religion, but thinking about what we owe to each other; all the stuff you'd find in the good place that they talk about, like all those questions of how to take care of each other and what it means to be a good dragon... so I hope that answers it enough! That was a good question." [44:22 to 46:33]
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TUI: "Um, Cole asks, 'As writers, each of you consistently work towards the idea of hope and the ability to change the world with it; do either of you consider yourself authors or fans of noblebright fantasy, or have thoughts about the subgenre?' ...Have you heard of noblebright fantasy?"
DAYNA (LORENTZ): "I have not."
TUI: (Laughs.) "I think I have, because I've been listening to this podcast, [...] but I think that just the idea, I mean... so it's kind of two questions in one - the idea of writing about hope, and then noblebright fantasy where it's, like, heading to a better world in a fantasy genre."
DAYNA: "Well I think that, you know, I don't know, I find that that's something that draws me to stories in general, so I would say that... if you ended a book on a, like, 'Welp! There it is!'" (laughs)
TUI: "'Well, that sucks!'" (laughs)
DAYNA: "Exactly. Well, that's kinda a bummer place to end; I think you always want to leave at least a door open, you know, for a reader, at the end of the book where they can find, um, a way forward. You know, even if it ends in a sad place I think you wanna have a thought of how it can go. Certainly in my YA trilogy it ends in a very sad place (Laughs) and, um, I left a door open, though, for all of the characters, and the idea that there can be transformation, and that, you know, even in your darkest times that's not the end - you know, the end of the story isn't your darkest day - you know, there's another day - and I think that that's... I don't know if that's noblebright or if that's just my view of the world, and it certainly, um... you know, Tui's the person I call when I'm having a terrible day because I know Tui's gonna be the person to tell me, 'There's gonna be another day, and it's gonna be better!', so... (laughs) I think the other piece that maybe is like a more 'publishing' piece is, you know, that when you're writing a book for kids - generally, that is, you wanna have hope as part of the story, um, but I think that's true of any story. I've read adult fantasy and, you know, even the darkest of adult fantasy tends to end on a note of hope, and this idea of 'there's a door to go through' - you know, you're not just left at the bottom, and it's like... (shrugs) well, that's terrible."
TUI: (laughs) "Yeah, I would not want to read that book. I've actually, like, in the middle of a book right now that I'm not sure where it's going, I'm a little worried it's gonna be too scary or dark this second half, so I need to find someone who's read it... if any of you have read [TITLE], please let me know. (Dayna laughs) It was actually... it's like a bad habit; I haven't even gotten to the haunted house, haunted school yet, and I'm a little worried - there's a lot of wasps in this book, also, which is not cool. (laughs) For me. So that's where I'm.. that's where, uh... but yeah, I also feel - I mean, I feel hopeful in general, and I think that's also one of the things I love about children's writing, like you said, it's, um... I'd feel like just being a child there's so much hope and potential there, and, like, 'all the things you can still do'." [51:42-54:57]
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What did Darkstalker think of his name?
"Oh, good question. I, um... I think he liked it... I do think that our names tend to say a lot about us, and particularly the NightWings always chose names that they, you know, sort of felt that they had to live up to, that they were hoping their kids would live up to, and so I think for him, um, having sort of an ominous name maybe influenced his personality a little bit - to be, like, "Yeah, I'm scary, if I want to be." But I think he liked it. At the time, I think that it suited the personality that he was building, and the family he was growing up in. ...It's funny, too, because with Darkstalker, it kind of went... I named him first and then built his personality, because he is mentioned in Book 5, and I didn't know that much about him when I first mentioned him, so... the name came first, and then I built the rest of him around it." [16:41-18:15]
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The last event was an exclusive private one while the other three questions are still publicly available; I STILL HAVEN'T MET TUI, I might add, but I WOULD freak her out in a really good way if we ever did meet, mwahaha. ^^
Your essay is well-composed and nicely designed, and I thank you for writing an intriguing piece where most of the intelligent discussion is limited to interviews and the books themselves.
I would like to ask, however, how you would explain Mrs. Sutherland's religious upbringing as a whole in a shorter form. You describe the themes so that they overlap with the moral elements, but I'm not sure the main idea comes through as much as it sounded like it did. Perhaps you could elaborate?
I thank you for your question! It's a bit hard to summarize very shortly, but I'd say that:
1.) Tui is, arguably, more spiritual than religious, though a variety of traditions have shaped her significantly - and in turn a variety of traditions are reflected both in the Wings of Fire series as well as in her personal life.
2.) She is raising her children within a Jewish upbringing, and has primarily adopted her husband's form of Judaism in a formal sense - hence the "and we're raising our children Jewish".
3.) Philosophical elements are discussed at length concerning morality especially within a Judeo-Christian light, and Books 1-10 + Darkstalker showcase her talents and unique worldview prominently as she wrestles with issues found in the real world in her fantasy setting.
4.) The characters in her books are informed by the way their cultural upbringing has shaped their philosophy, and in turn can elaborate more on the implied theological basis of their ability to choose right and wrong... so another undercurrent of the books is the question of "what the relationship between theology and culture is".
5.) Tui highlights implicit respect on a human level for all people, no matter the disagreeances, and presents an appealing, moderate and respectful take on this. (Ironically I argue Books 13-15 hold a bias in favor of some positions, but otherwise Tui does an outstanding job at what she does.)
I hope that answers your questions (you seemed to be asking a few) - and I thank you for writing!
Why haven't more people said anything? This is honestly one of the greatest things I've ever read, and It's about one of the greatest book series of all time !
LOL I remember you. Didn't someone even try asking Tui once who you were? I knew you were crazy smart with Wings of Fire but honestly no one expected something like this EVER from that mysterious Cole S sieban!
Alas, indeed. Forty-four people upvoted a "Who is Cole S. Sieben?" question at an event in 2021. Three moons - if it weren't for the interviewee intervening Tui would've been put in a delicately awkward situation! ^^ Thank you for reading this~
Hahaha! I only heard about it after the fact, there sure were a lot of people at those events. This is so good that Tui SHOULD KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND DEFINITELY SHOULD READ THIS I SWEAR
(sORRY for all caps)
40 people??? as in 44 separate people voted, what? Hold on, this sounds totally insane. I mean I believe it, but whoa that's freaky. I can imagine Tui's reaction to that!
I wondered if someone would try to bring this up. (Tsk, tsk?) I admire your courage!
I'll be honest - though I ask everyone to steer clear of controversy, as someone who detests conflict - as someone who enjoys both the possibility of Moonwatcher ending up with EITHER Winter or Qibli, yet takes comfort in who she ended up with in Darkness of Dragons. (No spoilers, please, ladies and gentlemen. ^^) Winter does "have a bit of growing up to do", as Tui commented, and emotionally all three of them are a bit scattered at times, but at the end of the day it seems to make sense that she's (Moonwatcher) with him (you know who) just based on how the story unfolded. So... both are fine with me? (I half-expected there to be a Glorybringer question on here first, I must admit~!)
Thanks for reading, as well as your question of a comment!
This essay is great and all, like a mini book, but what I'm interested in learning more about is your own history with the series. You seem to know all there is, but how is this? Did you sleuth out every single interview and read Tui's entire catalogue (or whatever thats called). Are you friends with her?
I know the books from my relatived and am not fully sure the series is all child-friendly, too-do you agree with this? As you talk about the 'problems', whatmakes the series sutiable for all ages. (I won't give specific cases, you probably know what I'm talking about.
But as a whole, I can't find even the slightest fault with it. I just want MORE.
Ah, you're curious about me... are you? Well, well, well... I'm certainly glad you asked, mwahaha. ^^ Having painstakingly done my best to read/watch/attend all the interviews (and blog posts by Tui over the last fifteen years), and doing my best to study everything for its MEANING (as an extremely intuitive person who always craves deeper meaning), what actually allowed me to excel is by reading and studying the series on my own with the ultimate goal of understanding the philosophy on a personal level just for my own sake. I don't know Tui (but would love to meet her and could definitely freak her out in a very good way!)... but here's to hoping I might one day!
If you're interested in MORE... well, why not apply what you love to your own writing (if you write)? Tui's big on writing what one loves, and I generally agree with that premise -
Unbelievable as it may seem, especially considering the tone of my essay for the most part, I hold the unconventional stance that Wings of Fire, while by and large advertized for younger audiences, is really NOT suited to them holistically as much as its themes might suggest. Sure, the violence might be off-putting for REALLY young readers, but I don't think that's a problem at all, actually, in the grander scheme of things - there IS a timelessness to the books, but I base my opinion more so on my personal experience than with any facts here. I discovered the first book - and read it - shortly after it came out, in 2012 at ten years of age; though I thought it was well-written, I got a serious impression its intellectual proficiency was better-suited for older readers (and I was a prolific reader even then; I'd discovered the Erin Hunter Warriors series and found said book by a chance encounter just under a year later). Now, I'd read Darkstalker in late 2016 / early 2017, going in completely BLIND after knowing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what it was about or why the cover art was so surreptitiously captivating. (Long story short, it changed - and saved - my life... more to that story I'd rather not get into here. ^^) It was the PERFECT book at that point in my life (aged fourteen), and gradually catching up over the rest of 2017 I still strongly believed the series was better-fit for older, more serious readers (who could better navigate it all). Arcs I and II, I believe, are appropriate, as is Darkstalker - and THAT'S where everyone should start... trust me, the rest of it'll blow you away if you start with Darkstalker first, ladies and gentlemen! But... well, I'm known to NOT BE A FAN of Arc III at all for a plethora of reasons; at the end of the day, I WILL confirm I DON'T recommend it at all to less-mature readers or children. Formatively speaking, it's a bit... disorienting, I believe. And nowhere near the level of Books 1-10 in terms of substance. But... that's just a matter of opinion, at the end of the day... isn't it.
Thanks for reading - hope it was interesting to you!
Wow!! Very detailed and well-written essay.
Aw, thank you Nicole! ^^ Glad you liked it~!
Incredible work Cole!
Ah - thanks Jazzy! ^^ Hope you enjoyed reading it~!
Thanks for sharing your essay, Cole! Insightful and cool writing style. I'll have to check out Darkstalker now! :)
Greatly appreciated, Sarah! ^^ Here's to hoping you have a great experience with Darkstalker!
I must say I really like the amount of insight you try to give without being redundant or excessive. This is just the right length for the right kind of introduction that, really, more people should be making. All+ the while you don't sacrifice any of the good bits you make the essay YOURS AND the quality is consistent across the whole thing. Sure it's a bit of a stretch but I really think this is the finest written thing anyone's made to do with Wings Of Fire, and I admire your commitment in putting this history together.
I'd go and tell people on the wiki about it, but you know them. it'll get ignored or torn to shreds, and I will get blamed or something, and people will complain no matter what, but I truly hope more people read this some way or another. It's a shame it's so hard to find, otherwise it could have been a huge hit
Oh and keep writing! I can only imagine what kind of fantasy writer you might be :) :) :)
Thank you - I must say, you're too kind with your praise!
Quality over quantity all the way. I'm more than happy to answer questions, or give less vaguely ominous, more concise answers to questions... apologies if the lack of examples substantially discussed at length was lacking. And I appreciate your bit about the "it could have been a huge hit"... I'd originally planned publishing it with a massive distributor (and wrote to eighteen organizations/educational resource centers, only to be rejected by all of them), and then it would've gotten presumably 10,000-200,000+ readers, but... oh well. Nothing more I can do; it's only spreading by word of mouth, though I have to say I'm impressed by how many hundred people have read it in its first week out!
Don't worry about "letting it loose" on the world of fans if you're worried to, by the way. ^^ IF it does make it's way around (and it hasn't as of this point), I have high hopes and low expectations, as it can often be good to have with those kinds of situations... so long as someone isn't looking to adopt some kind of common consensus on this piece, whether good or bad, I'm grateful that someone even gave it the chance in the first place; I welcome anyone to read it!
And thank you once again - Tui's right in that anyone can be a writer... though it takes a lot of practice, too! ^^
WHOA!
Cole this is amazing! I'm totally gonna read Wings of Fire now!
It's clear you put a lot of time into this, and I hope this gets more attention. You srsly know your stuff
and I'm onestly in a bit of shock. This is meticulous and VERY fair from what I can tell.
Keep writing., you have a rare ability to write the sorta thing almost anyone else can't do.
I wonder what your eelation to the author and the series is?
Thanks - Lucas
Thank you for your kind words! Genuinely speaking - I'd been a bit afraid I'd receive a more... polarizing reaction, you could say. ^^
I'll admit this was definitely a more experimental kind of stylistic arrangement compared to what I'm generally used to writing; I'm honored that it blew quite a few people away. With regards to the "rare ability", you're a bit more flattering than you probably should be - this was a one-off project, and apart from my eventual book (please don't ask details for the time being, mwahaha~) you won't get to hear from me again... in the foreseeable future, at least.
I believe everyone should have the opportunity to read the series for his or herself without the influence of others, whether that be fan-produced works shaping pre-conceptions or reading the reviews of others. That being said, it was a bit of a challenge in providing such an in-depth introductory analysis that brings people up-to-date without sacrificing the depth itself. A balancing act between spoiler-free neutrality and the unmatched capacity I have to discerningly discuss everything. (Seriously speaking, if I hadn't decided to ultimately limit myself this would've been six times as long. ...Hundreds of drafts and thousands of hours later, I can confirm this is the case.) Just look at Darkstalker, after all - it's rather hard to justify its excellence without knowing it!
Many fans, readers and FanWings who have attended live events with me have gone on to wonder, and yes, at one point I was even thought to be Tui in disguise (as I've answered hundreds of Crowdcast event questions long before - and during - live events, for both the sake of ensuring new questions are answered/asked as well as helping as many people as possible find what they seek). But I happen to live in the far-away land of rural Vancouver, Canada, half a continent away from Tui and perhaps destined to NEVER get the opportunity to meet her. At least there's the hope she might read this one day. But... long story short, I'm just a... notorious fan who knows more than most. Nothing more, nothing less... ...or is there something more to me than meets the eye? Hmm?
In shock? So am I, don't know why, somethin' in my eye? Lol
You rock Cole
Thanks! ^^
Wish I'd read this sooner. It's the only piece I've seen that goes further than just scratching the surface of Wings of Fire. Keep up the great work!
Glad to hear I went into enough depth - believe me when I say I could write a few books on the books' themes. ^^
This is really helpful, thank you Mr. Sieben. I hope that you will continue to write about Mrs. Sutherland's books.
Greatly appreciated. ^^
Nice!
Thanks! ^^
You are so smart Cole! ;)
This is amazing, WHOA
I'm a bit blown away by this piece. You cleverly anticipate all the questions a reader has in due time, and carry on with a quirky, good-humored tone consistently. I can't find fault with your facts, having been to a few online events where you were attending in the past :) :) :)
Can I ask a question or two? I have three.
Hello to you... ^^
Thanks for writing! You are more than welcome to ask any questions away - I welcome them from anyone who reads this! I'm glad you liked the piece~!
OH MY GOSH THAT WAS QUICK Okay, um
1. What questions have you asked Tui over the years? Not all the ones you've answered lol, just which ones you actually asked Tui that got answered by her, hahaha
2. Who's your favourtie dragon in Wings of fire?
3. Why did you write this piece? I don't want to sound redundant but I don't know if you've already answered this somewhere else
Thank you ;)
Heh! Convenient, right?
~ My favorite character, possibly of all time, is Darkstalker. For reasons I'll never fully explain to anyone. Ever. Mwa. Ha. Ha. ^^
~ Why I wrote this piece? Well... to enlighten and introduce a serious audience to Wings of Fire while offering something for everyone - to tell a story with all that I know, introducing the books and ideas intimately yet objectively. It's difficult to say if there have been ANY retrospective pieces on the books, and there definitely haven't been any examinations of the themes from a distance even remotely similar to this prior to its publication... so... perhaps that's a good start? On a personal level it's far more complicated - naturally - but to share the love of the series and help present what few people know to a larger audience. Though I wasn't able to secure a re-distributor despite my best efforts - hence the accessibility of this essay is very limited - I'm quite pleased to see how positive of a critical reception it has received.
~ I've answered around seven hundred questions at Wings of Fire events, and have asked five, four of which have been answered as of this point; I'm glad you asked:
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How do you think you would use animus magic?
"Well, it would be pretty exciting to be able to snap my fingers and have my books just be written exactly the way I would write it if I spent months and months writing - you know, be like, 'Here is Book 15! All finished!' That would be pretty amazing. But I will say some of what I wrote in Book 10 was me kind of working through what I might do with animus magic and how it could backfire, so the fact that Qibli's first instinct is 'You know, if I had animus magic I could make everyone like me,'' that's one of my first instincts too - I'd be like, 'What? Then I wouldn't have to worry about people not liking me!' Which I think everybody does. Then Darkstalker kind of does that and Qibli realizes, 'Probably not so great, actually - it's not an awesome spell to cast on everybody.' And then there's also stuff in other parts of the books about using it to protect your children. Everything Clearsight does - it's not with animus magic - but she uses her magic to protect her children and make their lives as happy as possible, and then there are ways that can backfire... so I spent a lot of time going in circles about 'What if I cast this spell, but then it went horribly wrong?' so hopefully, I don't know, maybe getting a spell to write all my books for me would be... uh, I don't know how that would go horribly wrong but I'm sure I could think of something in the next ten minutes! Because I think that there's... I don't know, I like writing about magic, but I also think that it brings up a lot of questions about what could happen, so anyway, that's my answer! ...Oh, you know what, no, wait: I'd stop climate change! Sorry, that's the thing I should have said! I would stop climate change and make the pandemic go away and have everybody go back to school and be happy again." [29:03 to 31:05]
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Religion is very uniquely portrayed in Wings of Fire. Do you reflect faith systems metaphorically/philosophically (ex: Tolkien's LotR), do you write characters based on their set of beliefs, or do you do something different?
"...Yeah, that is a really good question. Umm... I mean it's... I feel like for the real answer, I'd have to go a lot into depth about my religious background and, umm... like, I went to a Baptist Missionary School in Paraguay and I also studied Buddhism in college and I'm married to a wonderful Jewish man and we're raising our children Jewish, so there's a lot of pieces that kind of come together and, um, in my brain as I'm thinking about this, but I think that for me what it really comes down to - especially with a fantasy world like this - is more of a moral grounding, and I do think a lot about the dragons choosing right and wrong and choosing to help other dragons over themselves is a lot of elements of different religious beliefs or philosophies that hopefully come together. I feel like, you know, if you want a really good answer to this you gotta find a grad student who could write a really good essay on all of the different things that I tried to weave into the books - I'm not sure I could explain it quite as well, but it's definitely a big part of what I'm thinking about is just the, um... not necessarily like putting it in the framework of a religion, but thinking about what we owe to each other; all the stuff you'd find in the good place that they talk about, like all those questions of how to take care of each other and what it means to be a good dragon... so I hope that answers it enough! That was a good question." [44:22 to 46:33]
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TUI: "Um, Cole asks, 'As writers, each of you consistently work towards the idea of hope and the ability to change the world with it; do either of you consider yourself authors or fans of noblebright fantasy, or have thoughts about the subgenre?' ...Have you heard of noblebright fantasy?"
DAYNA (LORENTZ): "I have not."
TUI: (Laughs.) "I think I have, because I've been listening to this podcast, [...] but I think that just the idea, I mean... so it's kind of two questions in one - the idea of writing about hope, and then noblebright fantasy where it's, like, heading to a better world in a fantasy genre."
DAYNA: "Well I think that, you know, I don't know, I find that that's something that draws me to stories in general, so I would say that... if you ended a book on a, like, 'Welp! There it is!'" (laughs)
TUI: "'Well, that sucks!'" (laughs)
DAYNA: "Exactly. Well, that's kinda a bummer place to end; I think you always want to leave at least a door open, you know, for a reader, at the end of the book where they can find, um, a way forward. You know, even if it ends in a sad place I think you wanna have a thought of how it can go. Certainly in my YA trilogy it ends in a very sad place (Laughs) and, um, I left a door open, though, for all of the characters, and the idea that there can be transformation, and that, you know, even in your darkest times that's not the end - you know, the end of the story isn't your darkest day - you know, there's another day - and I think that that's... I don't know if that's noblebright or if that's just my view of the world, and it certainly, um... you know, Tui's the person I call when I'm having a terrible day because I know Tui's gonna be the person to tell me, 'There's gonna be another day, and it's gonna be better!', so... (laughs) I think the other piece that maybe is like a more 'publishing' piece is, you know, that when you're writing a book for kids - generally, that is, you wanna have hope as part of the story, um, but I think that's true of any story. I've read adult fantasy and, you know, even the darkest of adult fantasy tends to end on a note of hope, and this idea of 'there's a door to go through' - you know, you're not just left at the bottom, and it's like... (shrugs) well, that's terrible."
TUI: (laughs) "Yeah, I would not want to read that book. I've actually, like, in the middle of a book right now that I'm not sure where it's going, I'm a little worried it's gonna be too scary or dark this second half, so I need to find someone who's read it... if any of you have read [TITLE], please let me know. (Dayna laughs) It was actually... it's like a bad habit; I haven't even gotten to the haunted house, haunted school yet, and I'm a little worried - there's a lot of wasps in this book, also, which is not cool. (laughs) For me. So that's where I'm.. that's where, uh... but yeah, I also feel - I mean, I feel hopeful in general, and I think that's also one of the things I love about children's writing, like you said, it's, um... I'd feel like just being a child there's so much hope and potential there, and, like, 'all the things you can still do'." [51:42-54:57]
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What did Darkstalker think of his name?
"Oh, good question. I, um... I think he liked it... I do think that our names tend to say a lot about us, and particularly the NightWings always chose names that they, you know, sort of felt that they had to live up to, that they were hoping their kids would live up to, and so I think for him, um, having sort of an ominous name maybe influenced his personality a little bit - to be, like, "Yeah, I'm scary, if I want to be." But I think he liked it. At the time, I think that it suited the personality that he was building, and the family he was growing up in. ...It's funny, too, because with Darkstalker, it kind of went... I named him first and then built his personality, because he is mentioned in Book 5, and I didn't know that much about him when I first mentioned him, so... the name came first, and then I built the rest of him around it." [16:41-18:15]
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The last event was an exclusive private one while the other three questions are still publicly available; I STILL HAVEN'T MET TUI, I might add, but I WOULD freak her out in a really good way if we ever did meet, mwahaha. ^^
EDIT: You can view Melanie of Books of Wonder asking my most famous (infamous?) question on my behalf right here: https://www.crowdcast.io/e/tuitsutherlanddragonslayer/clips/5f9ef1942f7ac9009bd551a1
Regardless, thank you once again for both asking your questions and for reading!
10/10 response!
This rocks!
Heh, thank you! ^^
Your essay is well-composed and nicely designed, and I thank you for writing an intriguing piece where most of the intelligent discussion is limited to interviews and the books themselves.
I would like to ask, however, how you would explain Mrs. Sutherland's religious upbringing as a whole in a shorter form. You describe the themes so that they overlap with the moral elements, but I'm not sure the main idea comes through as much as it sounded like it did. Perhaps you could elaborate?
I thank you for your question! It's a bit hard to summarize very shortly, but I'd say that:
1.) Tui is, arguably, more spiritual than religious, though a variety of traditions have shaped her significantly - and in turn a variety of traditions are reflected both in the Wings of Fire series as well as in her personal life.
2.) She is raising her children within a Jewish upbringing, and has primarily adopted her husband's form of Judaism in a formal sense - hence the "and we're raising our children Jewish".
3.) Philosophical elements are discussed at length concerning morality especially within a Judeo-Christian light, and Books 1-10 + Darkstalker showcase her talents and unique worldview prominently as she wrestles with issues found in the real world in her fantasy setting.
4.) The characters in her books are informed by the way their cultural upbringing has shaped their philosophy, and in turn can elaborate more on the implied theological basis of their ability to choose right and wrong... so another undercurrent of the books is the question of "what the relationship between theology and culture is".
5.) Tui highlights implicit respect on a human level for all people, no matter the disagreeances, and presents an appealing, moderate and respectful take on this. (Ironically I argue Books 13-15 hold a bias in favor of some positions, but otherwise Tui does an outstanding job at what she does.)
I hope that answers your questions (you seemed to be asking a few) - and I thank you for writing!
Why haven't more people said anything? This is honestly one of the greatest things I've ever read, and It's about one of the greatest book series of all time !
Ah - thank you for your kind words! ^^
I second this! Gotta keep on reading to find more of these "hidden themes" you so animatedly talk about
LOL I remember you. Didn't someone even try asking Tui once who you were? I knew you were crazy smart with Wings of Fire but honestly no one expected something like this EVER from that mysterious Cole S sieban!
Alas, indeed. Forty-four people upvoted a "Who is Cole S. Sieben?" question at an event in 2021. Three moons - if it weren't for the interviewee intervening Tui would've been put in a delicately awkward situation! ^^ Thank you for reading this~
Hahaha! I only heard about it after the fact, there sure were a lot of people at those events. This is so good that Tui SHOULD KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND DEFINITELY SHOULD READ THIS I SWEAR
(sORRY for all caps)
40 people??? as in 44 separate people voted, what? Hold on, this sounds totally insane. I mean I believe it, but whoa that's freaky. I can imagine Tui's reaction to that!
I gotta ask, are you a Moonbli or Winterwatcher fan? I promise I won't judge
Great essay!
Hello to you... ^^
I wondered if someone would try to bring this up. (Tsk, tsk?) I admire your courage!
I'll be honest - though I ask everyone to steer clear of controversy, as someone who detests conflict - as someone who enjoys both the possibility of Moonwatcher ending up with EITHER Winter or Qibli, yet takes comfort in who she ended up with in Darkness of Dragons. (No spoilers, please, ladies and gentlemen. ^^) Winter does "have a bit of growing up to do", as Tui commented, and emotionally all three of them are a bit scattered at times, but at the end of the day it seems to make sense that she's (Moonwatcher) with him (you know who) just based on how the story unfolded. So... both are fine with me? (I half-expected there to be a Glorybringer question on here first, I must admit~!)
Thanks for reading, as well as your question of a comment!
(Mysteriously disappears into the shadows.)
Oooooh I wanna know too
This essay is great and all, like a mini book, but what I'm interested in learning more about is your own history with the series. You seem to know all there is, but how is this? Did you sleuth out every single interview and read Tui's entire catalogue (or whatever thats called). Are you friends with her?
I know the books from my relatived and am not fully sure the series is all child-friendly, too-do you agree with this? As you talk about the 'problems', whatmakes the series sutiable for all ages. (I won't give specific cases, you probably know what I'm talking about.
But as a whole, I can't find even the slightest fault with it. I just want MORE.
Peace.
Ah, you're curious about me... are you? Well, well, well... I'm certainly glad you asked, mwahaha. ^^ Having painstakingly done my best to read/watch/attend all the interviews (and blog posts by Tui over the last fifteen years), and doing my best to study everything for its MEANING (as an extremely intuitive person who always craves deeper meaning), what actually allowed me to excel is by reading and studying the series on my own with the ultimate goal of understanding the philosophy on a personal level just for my own sake. I don't know Tui (but would love to meet her and could definitely freak her out in a very good way!)... but here's to hoping I might one day!
If you're interested in MORE... well, why not apply what you love to your own writing (if you write)? Tui's big on writing what one loves, and I generally agree with that premise -
Unbelievable as it may seem, especially considering the tone of my essay for the most part, I hold the unconventional stance that Wings of Fire, while by and large advertized for younger audiences, is really NOT suited to them holistically as much as its themes might suggest. Sure, the violence might be off-putting for REALLY young readers, but I don't think that's a problem at all, actually, in the grander scheme of things - there IS a timelessness to the books, but I base my opinion more so on my personal experience than with any facts here. I discovered the first book - and read it - shortly after it came out, in 2012 at ten years of age; though I thought it was well-written, I got a serious impression its intellectual proficiency was better-suited for older readers (and I was a prolific reader even then; I'd discovered the Erin Hunter Warriors series and found said book by a chance encounter just under a year later). Now, I'd read Darkstalker in late 2016 / early 2017, going in completely BLIND after knowing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what it was about or why the cover art was so surreptitiously captivating. (Long story short, it changed - and saved - my life... more to that story I'd rather not get into here. ^^) It was the PERFECT book at that point in my life (aged fourteen), and gradually catching up over the rest of 2017 I still strongly believed the series was better-fit for older, more serious readers (who could better navigate it all). Arcs I and II, I believe, are appropriate, as is Darkstalker - and THAT'S where everyone should start... trust me, the rest of it'll blow you away if you start with Darkstalker first, ladies and gentlemen! But... well, I'm known to NOT BE A FAN of Arc III at all for a plethora of reasons; at the end of the day, I WILL confirm I DON'T recommend it at all to less-mature readers or children. Formatively speaking, it's a bit... disorienting, I believe. And nowhere near the level of Books 1-10 in terms of substance. But... that's just a matter of opinion, at the end of the day... isn't it.
Thanks for reading - hope it was interesting to you!